It produced one of the greatest snapshots, and plays, in NBA history. Game 2 of the 2004 Eastern Conference Finals between the Pistons and Pacers was a slobberknocker, a 72-67 contest that epitomized basketball for these two teams during this era.
The Athletic’s James L. Edwards III (Pistons beat writer), Scott Agness (Pacers beat writer) and Michael Lee (national NBA writer) watched the May 24, 2004, game and conversed about its happenings nearly 16 years later. It was a trip down memory lane — a path that Pistons fans will never forget for good reason, and one that still probably haunts Pacers fans to this day.
OTD (2004) The Block!
Before LeBron’s block on Iguodala, Tayshaun Prince’s chase-down block on Reggie Miller was known as the greatest block in NBA Playoffs history.
(Via @DetroitPistons) pic.twitter.com/1CeMT7p6de
— Ballislife.com (@Ballislife) May 24, 2019
Opening thoughts
Edwards: Definitely showing my youth here, but I TOTALLY forgot that this was the “Guaransheed” game. As Rasheed famously, and hilariously, said: “We will win Game 2. You can put it on the front page, back page, middle page, whatever. Headliners, column one or two, we will win Game 2.” Good to know that ‘Sheed was such an advocate of journalism.
Lee: My first thought is I’m kind of mad you asked me to do this, James, because this was an awful basketball game. I mean, 72-67. These teams played 48 minutes of basketball and combined to score 139 points. Single teams are putting 140 on the board these days. So. Brutal. I remember the league was struggling to generate interest back then and folks had the nerve to blame ratings on Michael Jordan retiring. Nope. People didn’t want to watch mud wrestling without the mud. I’m so glad the rules changes went into effect the following season, because that brand of the NBA felt like watching a baseball game because you could go grab a drink and some snacks, come back, sit down and not miss any buckets.
Advertisement
Agness: The first thing that jumped out to me was the poor quality of the broadcast. Let’s not take HD for granted. This arena, Bankers Life Fieldhouse, has been around for 21 years yet still is one of the NBA’s great buildings. Those glorious two rows of courtside media seating are long gone and have been moved up to the club level. But did you notice how neither tunnel had a covering? That wouldn’t be necessary until after these two teams squared off in November. This physical battle led to what we now know as “The Brawl,” where things intensified and went off the rails.
Edwards: Also, for me, seeing Doc Rivers with the headset reminded me of how good Broadcasting Doc was. His reaction to Tayshaun’s block was so genuine.
Lee: You’re right about Doc Rivers in the booth. He made the game somewhat watchable with his commentary. He had just committed to the Celtics’ job but understood his responsibility to promote the league while sitting in the booth: “I don’t think it’s ugly basketball.” Way to be a company guy, Doc. Can’t make that paper degrading the product.
Who is at their peak in this moment in time?
Agness: I know the Pistons won the series, but let’s not forget the season Jermaine O’Neal had. It was his second straight season averaging 20 points and 10 rebounds and he finished third in the MVP voting. He had such an influence on this game and the series. Tayshaun Prince’s block was possible because O’Neal stuffed Rasheed Wallace at the rim. Although he had a big scoring drought in this game — it’s not like there was much scoring anyway — he still finished with 16 points. This was JO at his pinnacle.
Edwards: To me, it was Rasheed. He was the Pistons’ best offensive player, though this game didn’t show that. Overall, his numbers dipped because of where he was playing, but he was still a go-to guy. Mentally, he appeared to be in the best space of his career. Of course, everyone called Rasheed the missing piece, and he was, but he was also the player, I believe, who most resembled a superstar on this team.
Advertisement
Lee: I’m going to go with the other Wallace, Ben. He was such a force defensively. Completely dominated that game without scoring. But can I digress for a minute? I’d be remiss without mentioning that I had the fortune of being on the Atlanta Hawks beat back then (some might say misfortune, given how bad they were, but I loved it). So, I got to cover Rasheed’s lone game with the Hawks before he got shipped to Detroit. It remains one of the most fun experiences of my 18-plus seasons chronicling the NBA. Funny that he wound up with the Hawks because he made his infamous, “CTC. Cut the check,” comments after Portland defeated Atlanta earlier that season. ‘Sheed scored 20 points in that game, a loss to the New Jersey Nets, but completely changed the mindset and attitude of the team with that performance. I had a feeling that he’d make a huge difference in Detroit based on the reaction of Hawks players after he got dealt. I swear, you would’ve thought he’d been with them for 10 seasons, as opposed to one game, based on the disappointment and heartbreak. They thoroughly enjoyed playing with him and he brought so much confidence with him to the court. That bravado can be contagious. He truly uplifted the Pistons, helping to form one of the most perfectly assembled teams of complementary parts that I can remember. Those guys fit together so well.
What’s the best moment?
Edwards: Do we need to say it? Michael, you were covering the NBA at this point. Was this considered the best block in NBA history after it happened?
Lee: That Tayshaun block was incredible but I don’t remember anyone having those kinds of conversations about it being the best back then. Folks didn’t start getting into GOAT discussions or whatever until the social media/TV talking head age took over a few years later. I just remember people talking about that block justifying – at least at that moment – Joe Dumars passing on Carmelo Anthony with the No. 2 pick in the draft the previous summer to take human victory cigar Darko Milicic.
Edwards: I was curious if we’d go this entire convo without a Darko reference. … Scott, you’re from Indiana, correct? What impact did/does Tayshuan’s block have on the fans?
Agness: That’s right, James. I grew up here. I began working for the team as a ball boy in 2005, so I got to see this team come so close to its first NBA championship, then aftereffects of “The Brawl” — and then transitioned into covering the team when Paul George emerged as the face of the team. This remains a painful moment for Pacers fans because they were so close to going up 2-0 and they desperately wanted a championship for Reggie Miller. They were confident, too, after a historic season — 61 wins, the most in franchise history, JO in the MVP conversation and Ron Artest (no, I’m not calling him Metta World Peace) was Defensive Player of the Year. This is a moment Pacers fans won’t forget.
Advertisement
Whose career does this series change the most?
Lee: I’d go with Richard Hamilton. The amazing thing about that Pistons team is it won a championship before Rip and Chauncey Billups would be named All-Stars. Rip was always seen as a nice player who could come around curls and hit mid-range jumpers, but there were questions about his heart and toughness after Michael Jordan traded him from Washington for Jerry Stackhouse. He worked hard to become a two-way player in Detroit. In this series against the Pacers, against the guy whom he patterned his game after in Reggie Miller, Hamilton balled out. He carried the Pistons with some big games and would go on to earn some bragging rights against his former high school friend and rival, Kobe Bryant, in the NBA Finals.
Edwards: I’d say Tayshaun. I think after “The Block” and his defense on Artest, people started to see him as one of the better defenders in the NBA. Couple this series with how he defended in the NBA Finals, and I think he started to earn outside respect. Remember, this was only his second season in the NBA.
Agness: I agree, it’s Tayshaun. That block was the signature moment of the series and without it (and a Pistons Game 2 win), the Pacers are NBA champions. It was just his second season in the NBA and his first as a regular contributor. The next four seasons he was voted to the All-Defensive Second Team, but never was an All-Star like Billups or Hamilton. This series opened up a lot of eyes to Prince’s potential.
What did you forget about this game?
Edwards: Ben Wallace had two fouls before the midway point of the first quarter. I thought that the second one, where he got whistled for an off-arm clear-out was a bad call. The first one was also iffy. After the second foul, he came out and didn’t return until after halftime. I forgot about that. Another thing — because I wasn’t even a teenager at the time of this series and because the Pistons wound up winning the title — I forgot how physical and defensive-minded the Pacers were. The Pistons, because they won the title, got this label and it stuck with them forever. However, Indiana was equally as gritty. This game was a perfect reminder. I would guess that most people outside of these two markets, and those who paid close attention nationally, may have forgotten how tough the Pacers were.
Lee: I forgot how hard it was to score back then because the emphasis was on physicality and the refs just let them play. The teams combined for 26 blocked shots. That block Jermaine O’Neal had on Rasheed Wallace in the third quarter was mean. I also didn’t remember how dreadful Ron Artest was. He shot 11 for 44 in the first two games of that series — at home. He won defensive player of the year that season, so he earned his time on the floor for what he brought on the other end, but his shooting was a detriment to his team. I also love that he didn’t bother to even think about getting a fresh cut for that series. Let that ‘fro go wherever it wanted.
Agness: I didn’t remember that Miller’s layup only would have tied the game at 69, that it wasn’t a go-ahead layup. I also didn’t recall how much of an impact block shots had all game long — more than just Tayshaun’s. As Michael said, the teams combined for 26, one more than the number of 3-pointers attempted. Everything was on the interior and trying to score through the defense. When we talk about old-school, grind-it-out basketball, this was it.
Is there any part of this game that wouldn’t happen today?
Edwards: Well, the score for one. Today’s teams have a 72-67 score midway through the third quarter. Additionally, analytics became more popular solely because of this game (I’m kidding). It’ll take me two hands to count the number of times the Pistons passed up decent 3-point looks for mid-range jumpers. To end the first quarter, Rip shot and made a long 2 just in front of the 3-point line.
Lee: All that hand-checking and shoving down low. None of that would’ve been allowed. One of my favorite parts of the game was when Jeff Foster had his hand on Rasheed’s head while defending him. Wallace still played through it and missed a tough shot along the baseline. But that was the ultimate face guard. I chuckled when ‘Sheed walked up to Bennett Salvatore afterward and asked, “Is he allowed to put his hand on my face?” I thought it was a very mature way for him to handle the situation. Portland ‘Sheed would’ve been T’d up complaining about it. Also, in the final 90 seconds, Chauncey Billups had that double-dribble, which would’ve easily been reviewed and overturned. It looked like he touched the ball, and he certainly intended to put two hands on the dribble, but he didn’t. If the Pistons hold on to that possession and get a bucket, we might’ve never seen Tayshaun’s block.
Advertisement
Agness: That was a great mic’d up moment and I laughed when Rasheed informed Salvatore about Foster’s hand by asking him a question. The physicality of the game would not be allowed. And with how skilled players are, they would not avoid the 3-point line as they did in this game, where we saw multiple air balls. When the Pacers were down by six with 1:38 left, that felt like too much to overcome, but that’s nothing in today’s game. And you’re right, Michael, Billups’ double-dribble would have been reviewed and corrected. What was the official doing calling that from behind without a clear vantage point? C’mon.
Edwards: Aesthetically, it was bad basketball. On the other hand, it was fun to watch because it’s so different from today’s game and because both teams were very similar in style. But this game would never be played like this today. The Pistons pressed and trapped at half court!
Which coach from this game would you take for a Game 7 today?
Agness: Two Hall of Famers who coached for both teams in this series — first for Indiana and then Detroit — so there’s no wrong answer. I prefer Risk Carlisle, a top-three NBA coach who trusts his players and makes smart in-game adjustments. Players sour on Larry Brown over time, one reason he jumps from job to job. But he’s a basketball lifer and players respected his knowledge for the game.
Edwards: I’m a big Rick Carlisle fan, and he’s still a premier coach today, so I’d go with him. Larry Brown, though, had a good handle on this roster and commanded trust. Brown found a way to get the best out of them. In this game, specifically, I was impressed with how long he rode the bench in the first half. The starters were on the bench cheering. Winning was of the utmost importance for everyone. The coach should get a lot of credit for that.
Lee: I’m going to go with Larry Brown. He was fickle. He could go from hating his players to loving them in an instant. He was a total opportunist who was quick to jump on a better situation the moment it arrived. But the man could coach. The reason he was always in demand – until his luck ran out in New York – is because he could coach. He’s the only coach with championships in the NBA and NCAA for a reason. If we’re talking one game, I’m going LB. I was pretty amused at how this series enhanced Joe Dumars’ rep as an executive, because he fired Rick Carlisle to get Larry Brown, who beat Rick Carlisle the first time they went head-to-head in the playoffs. And LB got him that chip. Worked out well.
Most important stretch in this game?
Edwards: Since we’re able to look at it in retrospect, from the start of the second quarter to the 6:34 mark of the second quarter was so critical. Detroit’s starters were atrocious to begin. When Rasheed came out, the Pistons were down 15-6 with 1:29 left in the first quarter. Ben, Rip and Tayshaun were already on the bench. Elden Campbell came in and did the dirty work that Ben was known for. Corliss Williamson and Mehmet Okur made shots. The bench, during that stretch, allowed the game to stay within striking distance. Detroit cut Indiana’s lead to 26-25 by the time the Pistons’ starters began to trickle back in. If the bench wasn’t ready to play and didn’t set the tone like that — because the starters were so, so bad — this game may have been a blowout.
Lee: The most important stretch was in the fourth quarter, with the game tied at 59, when Ben Wallace slapped that Jermaine O’Neal driving layup in the opposite direction. Rip would get three straight buckets to put the Pistons up six, which was the equivalent of a 15-point lead in the modern game. It was a money stretch because he was one of the only two players on the court who could hit a shot that night. Reggie Miller is the other.
Advertisement
Agness: I completely agree, Michael. The Pacers were trying to make a run and this is where it all changed. Hamilton went on a mini-run and the Pistons remained in front. I chuckled when play-by-play man Brad Nessler, who we associate with college football, noted at the moment how a Pistons four-point lead (63-59) was “the biggest lead for the Pistons.” That’s like mentioning a 4-0 run, it’s not worth your time in normal circumstances. But this low-scoring battling was different.
How does history change if the Pacers win this game?
Lee: Oh man, I love this question. If the Pacers win this game, they win the series and likely the championship because of all the inner turmoil with the Lakers that helped Detroit win in five games. But there is something else that might have altered history: a Pacers win would’ve meant no Malice at the Palace in November. Indiana wouldn’t have felt the need to send a message to the Pistons in the first regular-season matchup because the message would’ve been sent with those rings. Pistons-Pacers would’ve still been an intense rivalry but Ron Artest might have been in a different place, Al Harrington wouldn’t have asked for a trade that summer (which brought fan-punching Stephen Jackson). Yeah, that might have changed the whole NBA.
Agness: A great what-if here. First of all, Rasheed looks silly for his guarantee. The Pacers likely go on and punctuate their best season in NBA franchise history with a finals win over the Lakers, who were too much for them to handle in the 2000 finals. And Uncle Reggie, as many Hoosiers think of him, finally has an NBA championship. Does he go out on top after 17 seasons?
Edwards: I’m with you, Scott. I think the Pacers go on to win the series and title if they win this game. I think Tayshaun’s block and Rasheed backing up his guarantee completely changed the momentum. Stealing a game on the road will do that. I also think Indiana wins the game if Miller doesn’t get his shot blocked. It probably goes to overtime, and I think the Pacers pull it out at home.
Star of the night?
Edwards: It’s Tayshaun, right?
Agness: Absolutely. It’s The Tayshaun Game for a reason. …
Edwards: His defense on Artest, who people forget was an All-Star that season and the historic block make this one easy for me.
Advertisement
Lee: Star of the night was Rip, man. Without Rip, Detroit doesn’t score enough for the block to matter. Metta World Peace listed the 10 hardest players he’s ever guarded on Twitter last week. Kobe Bryant was the highest-ranking former NBA player. Richard Hamilton was ahead of Michael Jordan and LeBron James. He never got tired of running around.
Unsung hero?
Edwards: Elden Campbell for me. When coaches talk about “winning plays,” his performance in the first half embodied that cliché. He was all over the place, getting loose balls, and he made shots at the rim — stuff Detroit needed from Ben.
Lee: My unsung hero was Mehmet Okur. He played well in the second quarter, hitting some big buckets that the Pistons sorely needed after struggling to get anything going in the first.
Agness: The fans. I was getting goosebumps in the first quarter, which maybe shows you how much I miss basketball. But it also demonstrated the profound impact they can have on a game and how odd it would be if games resumed without fans in the stands. Also, this was a great line by Doc Rivers in the third quarter: “The rest of this game is going to be a war. We should clap when someone scores because it’s going to be difficult.”
Who from this series should be in the Hall of Fame?
Edwards: Well, I don’t think any players will be sending in the film from this game to help their case. As competitive of a game as it was in totality, boy, was it ugly. In all seriousness, though, Miller is the lone Pacer in, and I think that’s right. Now, for Detroit, I do think at least one person from this team deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. Ben or Chauncey? It’s Ben for me. He’s one of the greatest defensive players of all-time. I know we like to glorify stats and offense, but, man, it’s hard to dismiss how good he was defensively. I also think he could be somewhat as impactful in today’s game.
Lee: I’d have to agree on Ben. I think a lot of times, when you look at the Hall of Fame, you have to consider the era, as much as the stats. Ben Wallace represented what that entire era was about, good and bad. He won four defensive player of the year awards, with Ron Artest keeping him from winning five in a row. The Pistons made six straight trips to the conference finals because Ben was around patrolling the paint, protecting the rim and grabbing almost every loose carom. He couldn’t score but he was on a team that didn’t require any more from him that what he was able to give. He dominated and intimidated. I think he deserves a little more consideration, for all that he did as an undersized, undrafted player from White Hall, Ala. My man guarded Shaq in the finals at 6-foot-7 and won.
Agness: For the Pacers, the other two players worthy of consideration are O’Neal and Artest. I don’t think Ron-Ron did enough to be part of the exclusive club. But O’Neal was a six-time All-Star who played more than 1,000 games over 18 seasons. Injuries wore him down at the end, but I always thought he was underappreciated. It didn’t help that he spent the bulk of his career — 12 seasons — playing in Portland and Indianapolis. He’s the Pacers’ NBA franchise leader in blocks and third in scoring, but even they haven’t retired his jersey.
Advertisement
Edwards: I loved JO. I had his jersey in middle school or high school.
Agness: As for the Pistons, this was the last team to win a title without a superstar. That’s what is most memorable to me about that championship team.
Final thoughts
Agness: As much as I dislike teams gunning for 3-pointers and layups, the reality is that it’s more exciting and fun to watch than this defensive battle — especially to a general audience. I’m still impressed with how there were more blocks than 3s attempted in this game. And it was fun to see Reggie pour chalk on his hands before each trip to the foul line. He made it a thing before LeBron started the chalk toss. I also liked how there was a dramatic intro to the broadcast, something that should continue today to build drama leading into playoff games.
Edwards: I miss basketball. Playoff energy isn’t easily replicable in the regular season, and we were so close to getting to that point in the season. If the NBA does return this year, I hope it starts with the playoffs.
Lee: I don’t ever want to see the NBA go back to these days. But I need the NBA, or some sense of normalcy, back in my life. Not sure when that’s coming. Be safe, everybody.
(Top photo: Ron Hoskins / NBAE via Getty Images)
ncG1vNJzZmismJqutbTLnquim16YvK57kG9wa29manxzfJFpZmlrX2eCcL7EsJitm5ieu6h506GcZpuclsC0tcKsZKCtkaeur7%2FHnpydZaCewLW7zaxkqZmTmr%2B0ecaapJ5lYmJ%2FcXyTZpycnl8%3D